Arma 3: Liberation Tactical Realism 2 Feedback Thread - CLOSED

[Maco.D]

In trying to be helpful I get told I'm just making it worse. So I just won't bother trying to try and help. This is coming from someone who would has not gone to another RHS server since arma 3 had started

 

[Jarvis.A]

I honestly have no clue what your getting at. I'm not forcing cav level on anybody. It's the "team" you slot into when coming onto the server. It doesn't effect anyone's ability to get into the action per you words. It's not forcing our methodologies and there is no bar being pushed to far.

why can't we force more organized gameplay

I'm not trying to dishareten you or anyone else. I'm just trying to be a mediator here, and show the facts as they are

 

[Maco.D]

The extent my suggestion changes is very very very small. That's fine tho. I know where I stand tho 👍

 

[Maco.D]

Is organised gameplay what we recruit for.....

 

[Jarvis.A]

The extent my suggestion changes is very very very small. That's fine tho. I know where I stand tho 👍

Please, let's all just relax.

It's not small in effort to complete, which is what I think the guys were getting at. What may be small in feature, actually may require many hours to do or could adversley affect other systems

Is organised gameplay what we recruit for.....

Yes, it very much is. I also think it's fair to say that the server is already quite organized compared with many other servers out there. Does that mean it needs to repliate the internal operations? No. The same reason we don't expect a public player to lead an operation, we can't expect a random person who joins our server to have an intimate knowledge of how to get 'into action' on the server. You need to think back to when you first started playing Arma within the Cav, and I guarantee you it was not as complex a game or server as it is now. We will fail if we assume that of folks joining

The server, ideally, is made and designed in a way that allows it to stretch out into that organized fun for members and 'elevating' public players once they have the loop sorted. But it also needs to be made and run in a way that means John Doe joining the server can get stuck in and having fun without needing the years of experience our members have

 

[Burton.P]

Maco.D This has always been the case for Tac2, its just the dynamic of a public server.

Instead of throwing limitations I think we should adapt the mission to how the players play it.
In the end of the day being uncon/dead/down is not fun, it kills momentum and will trigger many players to quit.

Tac2 can't be 1:1 like Cav ops, its just never going to work, the dynamic is just different.
Players like being able to heal, players like being able to switch groups when there is a need to it in the field, people leave and join all the time and sometimes reorg is required.

Due to current Tac2 dynamic I plan to add 2 medic slots per infantry squad, and possibly dismantle Atlas-1 if needed.

This may sound controversial or outrageous, but FUN factor is important, if nobody is having fun you end up with an empty server.

This would be a bad call IMO. It would poorly misrepresent how the Cav actually does medical (with dedicated Atlas units) and potentially mislead people with that wrong impression.

 

[Maco.D]

I wasn't saying the tech side was small I meant the gameplay was a small change

 

[Jarvis.A]

Let's not get into a back and forward of this. It's not at all the intention of S3 with this thread

Time to get back on topic I think. We've both said our piece on that item. This does not need to become a multi-page debate back and forth over such a minor issue

 

[Sypolt.R]

The extent my suggestion changes is very very very small. That's fine tho. I know where I stand tho 👍

It's not in any way a small change from a technical standpoint or a gameplay standpoint. Being able to "Shac up" with each other has been pretty core to how Tac2 operates for a long long time. Removing that capability would significantly change how many players play the game.

Regardless of the size of the change though, the question that is more important is would it be a positive change. As even huge changes would be something I'd be happy to work on if they will improve the server gameplay.

In my opinion I'd have to say no. I think it would disproportionately harm gameplay when there is a low player count. When you have 2-3 people on the server and you can't group up it makes coordination much harder. When you start getting into 20-30 player count scenarios its been my experience that other than a few people most stop swapping groups at that point.

 

[Liber.N]

This would be a bad call IMO. It would poorly misrepresent how the Cav actually does medical (with dedicated Atlas units) and potentially mislead people with that wrong impression.

I am just throwing ideas around.
That's the dynamic of the server right now, players slot Atlas then shack into their infantry squad. There is no Atlas unit per say, just Atlas infantrymen with medical perms.

Unless there is a huge Cav presence on tac2, you won't really see stuff like CCP's being used.

 

[Maco.D]

It's not in any way a small change from a technical standpoint or a gameplay standpoint. Being able to "Shac up" with each other has been pretty core to how Tac2 operates for a long long time. Removing that capability would significantly change how many players play the game.

Regardless of the size of the change though, the question that is more important is would it be a positive change. As even huge changes would be something I'd be happy to work on if they will improve the server gameplay.

In my opinion I'd have to say no. I think it would disproportionately harm gameplay when there is a low player count. When you have 2-3 people on the server and you can't group up it makes coordination much harder. When you start getting into 20-30 player count scenarios its been my experience that other than a few people most stop swapping groups at that point.

Thank you for your input I will keep it in mind.

 

[Boyd.M]

We have tried this many times before, changing the slots make no difference and people will find a way around it to play how they want. If you want organized gameplay slot as 5/6 and take command. If you express an interest in organizing the server and make that vocal and setup a mission plan people will follow you, this is a fact. Sure one guy might go off by himself, and he can go die for all I care. We talked about this last night at WFW, if you want leadership and control then TAKE CONTROL. stop complaining about it and lead the troops.

 

[Tharen.R]

We have tried this many times before, changing the slots make no difference and people will find a way around it to play how they want. If you want organized gameplay slot as 5/6 and take command. If you express an interest in organizing the server and make that vocal and setup a mission plan people will follow you, this is a fact. Sure one guy might go off by himself, and he can go die for all I care. We talked about this last night at WFW, if you want leadership and control then TAKE CONTROL. stop complaining about it and lead the troops.

Besides this good advice, we also have a dedicated S3 Arma Public Staff who’s primary mission (as I understand it) is supposed to be to help facilitate organized game play on the server for these reasons.

Mazinski.H

 

[Mazinski.H]

Besides this good advice, we also have a dedicated S3 Arma Public Staff who’s primary mission (as I understand it) is supposed to be to help facilitate organized game play on the server for these reasons.

Mazinski.H

Public Staff can organize gameplay as much as we want, but we can't force people to go back and reslot, much as we would like to. Not to mention that with people constantly moving around and building and breaking squads, usually individuals like medics get so mixed up that its impossible to tell who is who until you either ask or check their traits to see if they have medical permissions.

It really is a culture issue with the public players that we have right now. All those guys really just want to run off in their two-three man groups and take that next radio tower or next town on their own which not only creates issues because those people usually take medical slots to support themselves in the field, but also clog up the AI cap and prevent other sectors from spawning. The servers that don't have this issue usually have very strong lone wolfing policies, admins that will dole out warnings and bans at an extreme rate for those who break said policies(the Karma server, which has been the most recent comparison, doesn't even have a formal appeals process and will literally crush people for the smallest of infractions. Literally go into the discord and you can find a player who got a week long ban because they accidentally backblasted someone if you need a point of reference for their admins.), and a large dedicated group of players who are constantly on and serve as a sort of passive enforcement as they will be very vocal with you if they even suspect what you are doing could be seen as acting on your own.

We don't really have any of those. Sure we say that "lone wolfing should be avoided when possible" in the ROE but in terms of actual enforcement, I haven't seen a single hotlist or ban for that rule since we implemented it back in Februrary. I am not saying this is anyones fault, I am saying that the issue is so big and so widespread that everyone does it to some degree or another and if we really started cracking down on it, we would probably end up banning half of the server population, and most of those people would be the public players that we are supposed to be trying to recruit.

Anyway, to cut a long ramble short, we can try our best to facilitate gameplay but right now the general server population doesn't seem receptive to it and many public staff members and MPs are very hesitant to enforce the more nuanced rules we have regarding this issue on the server because many of the problems those rules were designed to address are almost a fundamental part of our server at this point. These are deep issues that will not be fixed by simply moving slots around AGAIN but rather require direct action from both staff members AND troopers who frequent the server to ensure that we have a server where it is possible to organize gameplay in a way that best represents what the Cav is all about.

 

[Burton.P]

Public Staff can organize gameplay as much as we want, but we can't force people to go back and reslot, much as we would like to. Not to mention that with people constantly moving around and building and breaking squads, usually individuals like medics get so mixed up that its impossible to tell who is who until you either ask or check their traits to see if they have medical permissions.

It really is a culture issue with the public players that we have right now. All those guys really just want to run off in their two-three man groups and take that next radio tower or next town on their own which not only creates issues because those people usually take medical slots to support themselves in the field, but also clog up the AI cap and prevent other sectors from spawning. The servers that don't have this issue usually have very strong lone wolfing policies, admins that will dole out warnings and bans at an extreme rate for those who break said policies(the Karma server, which has been the most recent comparison, doesn't even have a formal appeals process and will literally crush people for the smallest of infractions. Literally go into the discord and you can find a player who got a week long ban because they accidentally backblasted someone if you need a point of reference for their admins.), and a large dedicated group of players who are constantly on and serve as a sort of passive enforcement as they will be very vocal with you if they even suspect what you are doing could be seen as acting on your own.

We don't really have any of those. Sure we say that "lone wolfing should be avoided when possible" in the ROE but in terms of actual enforcement, I haven't seen a single hotlist or ban for that rule since we implemented it back in Februrary. I am not saying this is anyones fault, I am saying that the issue is so big and so widespread that everyone does it to some degree or another and if we really started cracking down on it, we would probably end up banning half of the server population, and most of those people would be the public players that we are supposed to be trying to recruit.

Anyway, to cut a long ramble short, we can try our best to facilitate gameplay but right now the general server population doesn't seem receptive to it and many public staff members and MPs are very hesitant to enforce the more nuanced rules we have regarding this issue on the server because many of the problems those rules were designed to address are almost a fundamental part of our server at this point. These are deep issues that will not be fixed by simply moving slots around AGAIN but rather require direct action from both staff members AND troopers who frequent the server to ensure that we have a server where it is possible to organize gameplay in a way that best represents what the Cav is all about.

Couldn't have said it better. If we want a MILSIM public server, we need to stop being too afraid to hurt someone's feelings and go all-in. Or get off the fence and make it a casual server. Either/or. Middle ground is hurting us IMO.

 

[Maco.D]

So I was just messing around with this MOD last night and talking to rosefield the other day about it that. One of the issues they was having to adding it into the modpack was issues with taking damage in the cockpit area.
So I am suggesting this for tac 2 on a few reasons.
1. It will add some nice flavor to the server that some pilots will enjoy.
2. i'm assuming that once the cockpit damage issues are resolved in the mod that we would be including this mod in our modpack. Having this in tac 2 would allow Alpha Co pilots to practice with the air frames in a practical setting for when we hopefully use it in public.
3. I asked on the mods discord and from the response I had from a dev was they are awaiting another dev to return i'm assuming from holiday to push or finalize the updates to the mod for release.
4. It add's a very nice bit of realism to the blackhawks.
5. From what I can tel its a well received mod that I dont think is on many milsim public servers that might attract new possible recruits to the server if they see that our server has this mod. If we are posting our full modlist on different websites.
LINK: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1745501605

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk

 

[Sypolt.R]

So I was just messing around with this MOD last night and talking to rosefield the other day about it that. One of the issues they was having to adding it into the modpack was issues with taking damage in the cockpit area.
So I am suggesting this for tac 2 on a few reasons.
1. It will add some nice flavor to the server that some pilots will enjoy.
2. i'm assuming that once the cockpit damage issues are resolved in the mod that we would be including this mod in our modpack. Having this in tac 2 would allow Alpha Co pilots to practice with the air frames in a practical setting for when we hopefully use it in public.
3. I asked on the mods discord and from the response I had from a dev was they are awaiting another dev to return i'm assuming from holiday to push or finalize the updates to the mod for release.
4. It add's a very nice bit of realism to the blackhawks.
5. From what I can tel its a well received mod that I dont think is on many milsim public servers that might attract new possible recruits to the server if they see that our server has this mod. If we are posting our full modlist on different websites.
LINK: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1745501605

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk

We are not looking to add any mods to Tac2 at this time. I understand the desire for more, as personally I have a few I'd love myself, but at this time we're trying to keep the modpack restricted to common mods that many other servers have to make joining our server easier for public players.

 

[Maco.D]

We are not looking to add any mods to Tac2 at this time. I understand the desire for more, as personally I have a few I'd love myself, but at this time we're trying to keep the modpack restricted to common mods that many other servers have to make joining our server easier for public players.

So even if we support it it still wouldnt be on tac 2

 

[Sypolt.R]

So even if we support it it still wouldnt be on tac 2

I can't make blanket statements about the future, however, its worth noting we support the F-18 mod in the private pack which is not currently on Tac2.

As I said, I would love to add lots of mods, but the current S3 strategy with Tac2 is keeping the mod list limited to keep it modded but still accessible to players without making them download unique mods specific to our server (thus leading to players not trying it at all).

 

[Liber.N]

So even if we support it it still wouldnt be on tac 2

What he meant to say is that S3/BN1 HQ need to approve any mod changes, and right now they don't.
I have been asking for a while now to add the F18 Super Hornet, I will ask for the Black hawk next time I QQ to S3/BN.