7th Cav US West HLL Server - Admin Abuse

[Konteikeisei]

Formal Complaint: Admin Abuse
Incident Overview:
Date and Time: Today at approximately 16:45 ET
Game Context: Playing on the German side, assigned to a recon role.

Earlier in the day, it was established that recon units were allowed and encouraged to suppress the central HQ to prevent artillery operations. My Squad Leader (SL) and I were engaged in suppressing the artillery HQ to prevent enemy personnel from manning the artillery.

During an exchange of fire where I believed to have traded shots with my target, I received the following message:
"You have been Punished/Killed by an Admin 'HQ camping, 2nd warning'."

Complaint Details:
The core of my issue is as follows:

• In the context of the game, it's near impossible to discern if a person at the artillery HQ is attempting to perform artillery operations or something else as they are engaging you for being in the HQ to perform your function.
• There is no means of verbal communication with the enemy team.
• According to the server rules, being present at the artillery HQ is not considered camping.
• Given these points, why is the recon squad being punished for performing a task that is inherently part of their role since the game's inception?

Additional Notes:
I was not banned, likely because I immediately joined the Discord server to explain the situation. However, the threat of banning a recon group engaged in legitimate suppression activities seems driven by malice or abuse. Our task was to suppress the HQ and its artillery potential, as requested by our team and commander, after trekking for nearly 20+ minutes across the map.

The situation suggests an admin acted based on a complaint from a player who was unhappy about being killed at the HQ. Instead of respawning at another HQ or coordinating a defense against our recon team, this player called for admin intervention. The admin, without full context and relying solely on the player's word, nearly banned four players from the server. (The other recon team was also targeted as part of the complaint)

Involved Parties:
Complainant: SaltyJ / Jake Keisei
Admin Issuing Warnings/Punishments: SPC.Gripen.J
Member Making Complaint: SGT.Mulholland.J

Supporting Evidence:
Below is a transcript of the discussion on Discord, where I joined as "SaltyJ" in response to receiving the in-game warning. In-game, my handle is Jake Keisei, and my Squad Leader was Dangernoodles9.

Please consider this formal complaint and investigate the actions of the admin and member involved.
We seek clarity on the rules and assurance that fair play is upheld in the server.
Recon NOT performing this function are often warned and banned in other servers.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Sincerely,
SaltyJ / Jake Keisei

[4:39 PM] SGT.Mulholland.J: MP needed in HLL west [4:39 PM] SGT.Mulholland.J: We have HQ campers [4:39 PM] SPC.Gripen.J: I can take it [4:39 PM] SPC.Gripen.J: They are camping HQ? [4:39 PM] SPC.Gripen.J: I'll give them a warning [4:40 PM] SPC.Gripen.J: Name of the player? [4:40 PM] SGT.Mulholland.J: Yes, I gave them a warning and they are still doing it [4:40 PM] SGT.Mulholland.J: Jake Keisei [4:41 PM] SPC.Gripen.J: Copy, I'll give them a second warning [4:41 PM] SGT.Mulholland.J: And Dangernoodles9 (edited) [4:41 PM] SPC.Gripen.J: If they continue, let me know [4:41 PM] SGT.Mulholland.J: Copy [4:42 PM] SPC.Gripen.J: I couldn't warn them... Don't know why, so I punished them and said "camping HQ, 2nd warning" [4:42 PM] SPC.Gripen.J: Hope that was okay [4:42 PM] SPC.Gripen.J: Probably because I'm a MPIT [4:43 PM] SPC.Gripen.J: Did Dangernoodles do the same? [4:43 PM] SSG.Manser.N: Make sure you're in-game and seeing the violation yourself [4:43 PM] SPC.Gripen.J: Oh shit... I don't even have HLL... I thought... [4:44 PM] SPC.Gripen.J: I thought 7cav members' words had weight [4:44 PM] SGT.Mulholland.J: He is still doing it [4:44 PM] SGT.Mulholland.J: I saw the violation myself [4:44 PM] SGT.Mulholland.J: He's killed me multiple times [4:44 PM] SaltyJ: Hey, I am in HLL 7Cav West and was just HQ Killed for "Camping HQ" [4:44 PM] SaltyJ: I am Recon, doing requested Arty suppression [4:44 PM] SSG.Manser.N: Mulholland is a SGT and can issue stuff himself as a billet NCO [4:44 PM] SGT.Mulholland.J: We haven't had arty for 30 minutes [4:44 PM] SPC.Gripen.J: I mean, he saw it, and I took Mulholland's word for it. Is that wrong? [4:44 PM] SPC.Gripen.J: For me? [4:45 PM] SaltyJ: We were requested by the commander to suppress that middle HQ. [4:45 PM] SPC.Gripen.J: I believe this wasn't about arty... [4:45 PM] SPC.Gripen.J: It was HQ camping, right? [4:45 PM] SaltyJ: We are at the center. Should I ask the people spawning next time before they shoot me if they intend to get into arty? [4:46 PM] SSG.Manser.N: That is why it's important to get eyes on yourself; they can shoot active arty [4:46 PM] SaltyJ: So, what you're saying is, if I am in the area, waiting, and get engaged by anyone not on arty while watching the arty, I cannot defend myself in-game? [4:46 PM] SaltyJ: I will be Admin Killed, with warning? [4:47 PM] SGT.Mulholland.J: I just got killed again [4:47 PM] SGT.Mulholland.J: As a tanker [4:47 PM] SPC.Gripen.J: I get that... But he said he was HQ camping. That has nothing to do with arty [4:47 PM] SGT.Mulholland.J: Trying to get a tank. That's not "just" killing arty [4:47 PM] SPC.Gripen.J: Sorry for my mistake [4:47 PM] SaltyJ: Ok, so if I am recon, and requested to stop arty, and ignore that because I won't risk getting banned for being too close to an HQ. [4:47 PM] SaltyJ: No issue, right? [4:47 PM] SGT.Mulholland.J: Jerkoff Hardon [4:47 PM] SGT.Mulholland.J: This guy is now camping [4:48 PM] SPC.Gripen.J: Same situation, different player [4:48 PM] SGT.Mulholland.J: Also Danger Noodles [4:48 PM] CPL.Leifried.R: I'm on the way [4:48 PM] SPC.Gripen.J: YES [4:48 PM] SPC.Gripen.J: Nvm, I'm just a MPIT... I disengage [4:49 PM] SGT.Mulholland.J: Can I ban him please? [4:49 PM] SGT.Mulholland.J: He's been warned multiple times [4:49 PM] SPC.Gripen.J: I mean, one of our 7cav members saw it... So I punished him, is that wrong of me? I don't have the game, so I can't possibly see, can I? [4:49 PM] CPL.Maco.D: Public channel not best for this context of chat [4:58 PM] SaltyJ: So, where do I post a complaint about an abuse of admin powers? [4:59 PM] SaltyJ: Or do I and the public have no recourse in this matter? [5:01 PM] CPL.Maco.D: Any complaints you can post on our website https://7cav.us/forums/5/ [5:02 PM] CPL.Maco.D: Response can take a few days. [5:02 PM] SaltyJ: No worries, I can be patient. Thank you. [5:03 PM] CPL.Maco.D: You're welcome [5:06 PM] SSG.Manser.N: Follow admin SOP, if you have met it based on your SAC training and the wiki, go ahead [5:08 PM] SGT.Mulholland.J: Copy that. Thanks for responding, fellas.

 

[Jay.M]

Thank you. This will be checked.

 

[Jay.M]

I am still reviewing logs, will respond in due course. Thanks for your patience.

 

[Jay.M]

Thank you for taking the time to write up your complaint and the detail that is enclosed. The 7th​ Cav takes its administration procedures seriously and we pride ourselves on the safe environment we try to provide to our visitors and public players. Any report of admin abuse is not taken lightly and investigated as thoroughly as possible.

We have a long list of procedures that need to be followed before any action is taken against any player deemed to be breaking the rules, including ample warning for the player to stop their behavior before a temporary ban is issued. We have followed these rules and procedures which seem to have put us in good stead over the last 21 years.

The specific ruling in question is the following:

No Camping Headquarters Zones

---

• No intentionally choking an uncapturable spawn area, blocking all areas off from escape.
• Engaging players using artillery pieces located in HQ is authorized.
• No camping of the enemy HQ's is allowed. The HQs may be engaged freely if the final objective is active.

Spirit of the rule - This rule is about fair competition. We want everyone to have fun, therefore everyone should get the opportunity to fight back. If you see that the enemy is unable to get out of their spawn area, you need to fall back. We do not wish to create an environment where we are ruining their fun. The exception would be if the game mode forces you to move into spawn.


To address your concerns –

• In the context of the game, it's near impossible to discern if a person at the artillery HQ is attempting to perform artillery operations or something else as they are engaging you for being in the HQ to perform your function. – I would say that if they are sitting in an artillery piece, this is not really the case, its obvious what their intentions are. A tank crew spawning in rarely run for artillery pieces, either way, until they are say in the artillery piece you cant really argue that that is their intention. The fact that they are firing at you means that they may have been engaged initially.
• There is no means of verbal communication with the enemy team. - true
• According to the server rules, being present at the artillery HQ is not considered camping. – not entirely, you can be where you like unless we are in the seeding stages of the game, however it very much depends what you are doing while you are at the HQ – pretty much any enagement of toops of not allowed unless they are using an artillery piece.
• Given these points, why is the recon squad being punished for performing a task that is inherently part of their role since the game's inception? – the recon squad was punished because it was engaging troops spawning in at a HQ. Including armor crewman who were trying to get into their assigned tank and drive off. SGT.Mullholland, who initially warned you about the rule, was a crewman at the time, not able to do his duty and function, because he couldn't get into his tank and drive off.

Additional Notes:
I was not banned, likely because I immediately joined the Discord server to explain the situation. However, the threat of banning a recon group engaged in legitimate suppression activities seems driven by malice or abuse. Our task was to suppress the HQ and its artillery potential, as requested by our team and commander, after trekking for nearly 20+ minutes across the map.

The situation suggests an admin acted based on a complaint from a player who was unhappy about being killed at the HQ. Instead of respawning at another HQ or coordinating a defense against our recon team, this player called for admin intervention. The admin, without full context and relying solely on the player's word, nearly banned four players from the server. (The other recon team was also targeted as part of the complaint)


You would not have been banned. (and this will address your final point that: Recon NOT performing this function are often warned and banned in other servers – not in ours, this is not a bannable offence) The particular rule that was being enforced, at worst, results in a 1 hour temporary ban after 3 warning where you are given every chance to stop behaviour – we deem a permanent ban from our server for breaking this rule too extreme.

As far as I can see - there doesn't seem to be any malice or abuse here – merely the admin, going on the word of another Cav member, (which according to our procedure is not wrong) enforcing the rule where you were believed to be engaging troops who were spawning in – whether they were heading for artillery or a tank, we will never know because they were not afforded that chance.

Instead of respawning at another HQ or coordinating a defense against our recon team, this player called for admin intervention. The admin, without full context and relying solely on the player's word, nearly banned four players from the server. (The other recon team was also targeted as part of the complaint) –

The player called for admin intervention because the tank they were assigned was at that HQ and they should not have been engaged because they weren't using an artillery piece – merely trying to get into their assigned asset.


I've had a look at the logs, specifically your kills which I assume were at the HQ – and find it hard to believe that all of the following players were actively using the artillery pieces or intending to do so –

8:04 PM 06/28/2024
Jake Keisei (Axis) killed Sgt. Ambatukam (Allies) with FG42 x4

8:04 PM 06/28/2024
Jake Keisei (Axis) killed psinscy (Allies) with FG42 x4

8:04 PM 06/28/2024
Jake Keisei (Axis) killed TangoZip (Allies) with FG42 x4

8:05 PM 06/28/2024
Jake Keisei (Axis) killed =7Cav=RCT.Phippard.M (Allies) with FG42 x4

8:06 PM 06/28/2024
Jake Keisei (Axis) killed =7Cav=RCT.Phippard.M (Allies) with FG42 x4

8:06 PM 06/28/2024
boboncello (Allies) killed Jake Keisei (Axis) with M97 TRENCH GUN

8:08 PM 06/28/2024
Jake Keisei (Axis) killed Pepe (Allies) with FG42 x4

8:08 PM 06/28/2024
Jake Keisei (Axis) killed heroicpanda13 (Allies) with FG42 x4

8:09 PM 06/28/2024
Jake Keisei (Axis) killed PoopyBreath (Allies) with FG42 x4

8:12 PM 06/28/2024
Jake Keisei (Axis) killed =7Cav=PFC.Lahti.R (Allies) with FG42 x4

8:12 PM 06/28/2024
Jake Keisei (Axis) killed Kracc (Allies) with FG42 x4

8:13 PM 06/28/2024
Jake Keisei (Axis) killed =7Cav=SGT.Mulholland (Allies) with FG42 x4

8:13 PM 06/28/2024
Jake Keisei (Axis) killed donj5150 (Allies) with FG42 x4



If you were actively being engaged at HQ, you should have fallen back, allowed the tank crews and other players needing to leave the spawn area to do so and returned once artillery was active again. Even if you didn't want artillery to fire off a round, I'm sure that you could have waited for someone to jump onto the artillery piece and taken aim by the time they had time to zero in their own shots.

In the interest of transparency, I have gone through the logs and spoken to one other player who was part of the tank crews trying to do their job – either way, I cant see any indication of admin abuse by either SPC.Gripen or SGT.Mulholland.

I hope this clears things up - I'd like to welcome you back to our servers in the future, with a clearer picture of this particular ROE.

Respectfully,

 

[Konteikeisei]

I appreciate the thorough write-up.

This specific part is especially important to me as in other servers there is immense pressure to push that center area or risk a kick/ban:
"You would not have been banned. (and this will address your final point that": Recon NOT performing this function are often warned and banned in other servers – "not in ours, this is not a bannable offence) The particular rule that was being enforced, at worst, results in a 1 hour temporary ban after 3 warning where you are given every chance to stop behaviour – we deem a permanent ban from our server for breaking this rule too extreme."

My main concern was when I headed into your discord to check in and see if I could talk about it, I saw this.

1. [SGT.Mulholland.J:
   Can I ban him please?
   
2. 4:49 PMSGT.Mulholland.J:
   He's been warned multiple times

Note, a warning on the death/redeploy screen is something I have never seen before. I joined the discord the moment I noticed the second warning.
I did this to start a dialogue, let them know we hear you, happy to back off.

This discussion taking place did NOT make me us feel especially welcome. I did not know your groups process for this, it felt all to official.

Understand, my squad mate and I have no intention of ever "camping" or griefing non arty. Only defending ourselves when engaged.

This said, I now have a clear understanding of the ROE and we will be sure to operate within them, without fear of being banned for not pushing that center HQ. I kid you not we have been kicked/banned for not keeping it locked down in other environments.

Thank you for your time and the reply!