Tac2 Advanced Medical Splinting

Discussion in 'Public Suggestion Box' started by Bojan, Jan 2, 2019.

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  1. Bojan

    Bojan

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    This is a bit long, but I have a lot to say. TLDR at the bottom.

    The Problem:


    Ever since @Mr. Viscosity got me into being a medic with advanced medical, I've felt something was wrong with the way we treat most injuries. Most of the time we deal with an injured patient all we end up doing is bandaging them and then giving them a PAK since their arm/leg is most likely also broken. This means that to fix a single injury, we need to totally reset the player's medical state. Since all you need are bandage and a PAK, you really don't have to use a surgical kit, medications, or IVs. We're not using most of ACE medical at this point!

    Our medics are more than capable of reviving people without PAKs, but we all know that person with the broken arm/leg will be much less capable of engaging in a firefight, and their experience playing with be serious diminished.

    A previous thread (https://7cav.us/threads/tactical-realism-2-advanced-medical-fix.40481/) suggested two mods to help alleviate this problem. I understand that adding mods involves overhead with downloading things for clients, and keeping signatures up to date on the server. I understand the Cav does not want to add more mods. My solution is not a mod.

    While talking to @Vex.W a few weeks ago, he told me that there could be a script-based solution based on the splint mod. So, using the mod as a stepping stone, I did just that. There are limitations to a script based approach, most notable is the inability to customize the ACE medical menu; despite this I think the script works quite well.

    The Solution:

    The script simply adds an ACE interaction option for all players (we can limit this to just medics, if required) to fix arms/legs if they are broken. Depending on the settings, you may or may not have to have a specific item in your inventory and that item may or may not be consumed. You are able to fully fix an arm or leg in the field without affecting any other injury. By default, splinting takes about 20 seconds. With the right settings, here's what I think would be the ideal medical setup:

    - PAKs are no longer permitted in the field; must be done in a medical facility or vehicle (medevacs?!)
    - Splinting requires a patient to be stable (all blue, bandaged)
    - Splinting requires and consumes a PAK (since we don't allow these in the field, we can use them as "splint" objects. This doesn't mean that it does the same thing, or takes as long, as a PAK).



    You will notice in the video that applying the splint changes nothing about the patients medical menu, they are still bandaged, still in pain, etc. The only change is they can now walk.

    This will means players can, if they wish, carry PAKs on them to fix their own legs. Medics will still be required to stitch people, give IV, meds, etc. This also means that mass casualty events, or very severe injury can be handled with a medevac and PAKs, giving Mustang a job to do.

    Installation:

    If you take a look at the setting of the video, you'll see it in the 7Cav base at Malden. That's because I built the script to run alongside our missions, and to very easily install into existing Full Spectrum missions. Installation is nearly identical to the TAW viewdistance script. You drop in one folder, and you add two lines to the description.ext file.

    If we don't want to edit a whole bunch of mission files, perhaps we can demo this change on the Takistan mission file?

    Script uses CBA settings so you can change things on the fly. You can edit:
    - Patient required to be stable?
    - Require item in inventory?
    - Item that is required
    - Consume item after splint?
    - Item that is consumed
    - Splint time
    - Medic only? (to be added if required)

    Final thoughts:

    I hope the length of this post highlights both the work I put into this script, and how strongly I believe this would positively affect the server. I would be more than happy to continue to work on the script and make whatever changes are necessary to get this implemented. Its not a perfect solution, I know, but it is better than what we have now.

    tl;dr:
    - PAKs are overused, not fun, limit them to vics
    - New splint script to fix limbs only - no mods!
    - If its too much work to add, maybe just demo on Takistan and see how it goes

    @Geki.T
     
  2. Tharen.R

    Tharen.R B/1-7 Commander Captain Active Member

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  3. Kane.T

    Kane.T 1st Lieutenant DD

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    I've seen this before and would love to see it used. Could be extremely useful, especially with some stuff that's currently in discussion
     
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  4. Gerrish.T

    Gerrish.T Reservist In Command 2nd Lieutenant Active Member

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    In full agreement with Kane and yourself Bojan. Come join us in 3rd Bravo. You seem like a perfect fit for us!
     
  5. Thor.J

    Thor.J B/1-7 Platoon Staff Staff Sergeant Active Member

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    I believe this was something that Geki had looked into and was implementing Soon™
     
  6. Eversmann.M

    Eversmann.M C/1-7 Trooper Corporal Active Member

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    Yeah this is something those of us who were in S3 - Mod testing Staff (RIP) talked about but kinda put it on the back burner after looking into the mod ADV Splints as it seems the ACE team themselves will be or were going to be implementing splints along with a few other interesting new features into the next ACE mod Major overhaul themselves which seems to still be a little while down the line, This of course takes time and as we all know Ace takes their sweet time so this could be a good "in the meantime".
     
  7. Thumper.N

    Thumper.N Aide to the Chief of Staff 1st Lieutenant Active Member

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    Yet another reason to NOT get shot. +1
     
  8. Bojan

    Bojan

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    As much as I'd like to have faith that the ACE team will get that medical rewrite done, looking at their Github does not inspire confidence. The last commit to the medical-rewrite branch was in August 2018, and looking at the project page for the medical rewrite shows a lot of work left to be done, and little progress being made.

    https://github.com/acemod/ACE3/tree/medical-rewrite
    https://github.com/acemod/ACE3/projects/2

    Suffice it to say, I'm not really holding my breath on that one :p
     
  9. Vex.W

    Vex.W C/1-7 Trooper Corporal Active Member

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    I'm not the greatest medic in the world, and I don't really care to be, but keep in mind this current state of Tac2 is old and outdated. There IS and update that has been given to @Geki.T. If I remember correctly, the medical system between CLS and Mustang classes will be separated so that CLS can give basic stitching and such, where Mustang is the rolling Hospital. Another thing to keep in mind is, if you select the role, play it as its meant to be played. That means if you're running CLS, it is unnecessary to bring supplies that Mustang units will bring.

    This brings me to another issue I have been seeing a lot lately... People not playing the role their slotted in as. It irritates myself as well as others when people slot into a role that allows them to Bypass the restriction system... If you're slotted in as Titan, then you should only be flying the Titan airframe. Nobody cares what slot you fill when there's like 5 people on, but when there is almost 20-25 people on and we have someone in Raider slot flying Buffalo even though there is someone in the buffalo slot, that person is getting screwed out of their airframe because you didn't want to back to lobby to change slots.
     
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  10. Nexhex.A

    Nexhex.A B/1-7 First Sergeant First Sergeant Active Member

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    I definitely think this would be beneficial allowing medics to have access to the splint mechanic would make sense and adds another viable option to treatment. Im in total agreement with platoon staff on this one.
     
  11. I would personally like to hear @Geki.T chime in for himself on the status of changes regarding Tac-2 instead of multiple other people with differing ideas on what he's doing. There is far too much "He said, that they said" going on with this subject and word from the source would be preferable to everyone speaking for the man.

    Additionally: @Vex.W I don't think the thread about Advanced Medical Splinting is really the place to discuss the idea of pilot slotting problems; I think that needs a whole other thread just for itself. However making it so CLS can't do certain higher end things solves that slotting issue for medical.

    I am of the opinion that ACE Medical has no plans to finish that update.
    Can we just stop bringing up the fact that they're "working on it?"
    I have half a mind to re-brand ace Medical into Half-Life 3 at this point.

    I'm wholeheartedly behind Bojan on this one: It's a simple fix, saves on additional mods, fixes the problem until ace get's their literal %^&# together, and makes the experience more fun. I've seen everyone state "The update is coming" for more than a year now. Let's just cut through it; We're not getting a better ace medical system in the next two years unless we do our own hotfix with it... Some of you might have faith, but a lot of us don't.

    TL;DR:
    I agree 100% with Bojan and would add: What's the worst that could happen? We don't like it on Tac-2 and turn it off a week later?
     
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  12. Geki.T

    Geki.T C/1-7 Section Leader Staff Sergeant Active Member

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    I'll take a look at it and talk with Vex on implementing it into the updated mission files before we ship it out. If anything, we will have it be a CLS permission
     
  13. Bojan

    Bojan

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    Why can we not add this into the current mission files for the time being? It seems like it is getting incredibly hard to make changes to these missions despite the changes being relatively trivial to implement. I apologize for being rude, but we keep being told that "changes are coming" and we keep waiting, but in the 6 months that I've been back to Tac2 I've seen 1 change: the rearm setting tweak implemented last week.

    I simply can't understand why, if this feature is desirable, we are delaying it for another few months until all the mission files are updated.
     
  14. Geki.T

    Geki.T C/1-7 Section Leader Staff Sergeant Active Member

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    Because I'd rather keep it in an updated package to see if it works with what will be the new Tac 2 files, which are vastly different from the current one. Why test something out on something that is going to be removed and may not work on the new updated file.
     
  15. Bojan

    Bojan

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    The script was built to work with the existing mission. I don't know how the new mission files look, therefore I don't know if it would work with it (it almost certainly will, its a fairly simple and straightforward script and interacts with nothing). If it doesn't work on the new system, wouldn't it make more sense to test the concept out where it does, so it can be patched to work with the new system?

    As for "why test"? Because we'll almost certainly be stuck with the existing files for another few months, and a simple feature like this is a great little update to hold us over until the new system arrives. It's literally a folder and 2 lines in the description.ext, hardly an arduous update.

    Unless all the new AOs are coming out in 2-3 weeks, I really feel like Tac2 could do with something fresh.

    Reading my last reply over makes me realize that I sound upset. I hope you don't take my comments personally - they are not intended to be. All I want to do is speak up for myself and the two dozen or so people I've spoken with on Tac2 that aren't active on the forums but want to see changes.
     
  16. Geki.T

    Geki.T C/1-7 Section Leader Staff Sergeant Active Member

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    So here's the issue with this "arduous" update
    It requires me to go into the current, outdated, and soon to be replaced, Tac 2 Full Spectrum file, every file, and will have me add this little bit of code to every mission file.
    I then have to reversion and upload those files.
    Then I need to go have someone change the rotation.
    Then I need to hope and pray that after all of this, the missions still work as intended, because if they don't, we're back at Square One for the eighth time.
    On top of that, I have no idea where you are pulling the notion that we won't get a new update for another 3-4 months.
    There's a lot of things in motion right now and a lot of changes inbound for February.
    Right now, we're focusing on some other fields when it comes to Public Operation Staff. A big part of that is revamping how we do MCCs. So again.
    I will take a look at this script.
    And I will talk to Vex about putting it into the new mission file at some point once we figure out why it doesn't want to play nice.
     
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  17. Vex.W

    Vex.W C/1-7 Trooper Corporal Active Member

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    @Geki.T I already have the script, I don't know if it works with the update mission file...

    Additionally restriction scripts aren't in the update because they don't work properly. So we'll have to be relying on people to be decent about their action.

    Also there have been updates, but thats for the Official tac-2 thread
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  18. Bojan

    Bojan

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    This has to do with the lack of transparency into what's going on with Tac2. We've been hearing about "new AOs" since August, but apart from some updates from Vex (thank you for those), us pubbies have seen nothing happening with the server. Take for example Dread's suggestions to allow copilots and gunners to drive the HEMTT trucks at base. It too was probably sidelined because of "new AOs" and yet three months later we are still stuck with gunners not being able to drive trucks. Another example is the rearm mechanic, which was suggested for a change on October 30 and implemented a whole two months later. Again, Vex solved that problem in the new AOs but up until last week we were still stuck rearming one hydra at a time.

    It's because of this that you'll notice you're losing some long-time players like @Mr. Viscosity, who you could routinely find on there before but now comes on perhaps once a week. If you ask him, as I have, he'll tell you its because there feels like there is no forward movement. There have been no updates, things seem stagnate, and it is no longer as fun or fresh anymore.

    You say that you're revamping MCCs, and I'm glad to hear that, but you've made no mention of this before. What are you doing with them? What and when can we plan to see them? What are the new AOs going to be like? When can we expect those? We have gotten none of those answers, and we've gotten very little feedback on other suggestions that have been made (apart from "we're looking into this"). In contrast, look at the wonderful change logs and updates JB provides for the Tac1 server.

    The reason I'm fighting so hard to get this added in is because I feel like if I don't things won't change. Regular forum posts updating people on plans and upcoming changes for the server would go a long way to alleviate these feelings.

    I'm being frank, and I'm aware that I am coming off as rude - I once again apologize for that. I just want to highlight the point that to us pubbies, it seems like there is not a lot going on. I hope you don't take this too negatively. It's like what Vex has in his signature:

    Speak up about what went wrong in the mission. Neglecting to do so will prevent others from learning from their mistakes and nobody will grow to become better.

    All this said, I will drop the subject and patiently (and eagerly, I might add) await the new AOs with, hopefully, a way to splint broken legs :)
     
  19. Geki.T

    Geki.T C/1-7 Section Leader Staff Sergeant Active Member

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    Pretty much all of the things you are talking about here I have not brought up to my own staff yet as we have a meeting about it on Sunday. If you'd like to take part in the development of Tac 2, I highly recommend enlisting and seeing just how much of a process we go through to do all of this.
     
  20. Bojan

    Bojan

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    I appreciate the invite, but joining the Cav isn't really on my mind at the moment. That said, I wouldn't mind helping out putting things together. I'm a software developer in the real world, and I'd be more than happy to chip in if you'd like the help.
     
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